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Messages - jordhunter

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I think they've just simply lost a lot of fans along the way by trying to stay current. Bringing in a ton of shitty pop song writers to help create an album has created a terrible album.

Given that every single concert they play the exact same setlist and the 90% of the set is the hits they've been playing since 2002, you won't catch me at another GGD show unless they tour on Gutterflower front to back or actually change up their sets like other established bands (Dave Matthews, Bruce Springsteen, even John Mayer).

I was hoping to read your thoughts on the new record! I can completely understand why you didn't dig it. I think because I had a few months to digest how poor the title track was, that softened my overall stance on the rest of the material. Must say though, I genuinely liked it better than Magnetic.

Did you not like Think it Over?

And yeah I give up with the issues surrounding the set. They toured the UK last year and I skipped it, but they did Dizzy20 in the States and I flew over. Pretty much my thoughts on it.

https://www.billboard.com/music/goo-goo-dolls/chart-history/billboard-200

Does it even matter? That’s kind of what I think. I don’t think it will particularly hurt the tour cycle the record has and the band’s enthusiasm for the new material.

Bit of disappointment to see it chart so, so low. To see Magnetic (2013) #8 then 6 years later Miracle Pill #92 is a steep decline in sales. I mean Korn debuted in the top 10 this week and I’m sure Blink 182 will be #1 next week, so fanbases support records.

Thoughts anyone?
I think what we're seeing with Miracle Pill is actually the outcome of Boxes. Their past popularity provided a boost to that release, but now plenty of people are no longer paying attention because that album just did not resonate on any level. A lone top-20 single now doesn't mean much besides a major label is pushing a song hard; it's multiple singles that have lasting time on the charts that indicates people really care about a mainstream artist.

Boxes and now Miracle Pill may eventually start to impact their ability to tour on the same level. I think to turn things around they'd need to shift gears with a "get back to what we're good at" album. I don't know how much of their lost popularity they could regain at this point, or if they have any interest in writing something like that, or if they're even capable of doing so, but I do have a feeling that a lot of people would be more interested in that than in another stab at making a mainstream pop album. My personal ideal would be to hear Johnny's songwriting unfiltered through cowriters and heavy-handed producers again, but I get where they are in life and maybe that's just not in the cards.

Really interesting thoughts. It’s been suggested because of their past popularity (predominantly the mid to late 90’s) that it doesn’t matter where new records chart, which is what I kind of alluded to in my original post, but having read what you think, I’m inclined to agree with you.

I think there is a level of genuineness with the Goo Goo Dolls though, I believe they’re sounding like how they want to sound. I just don’t think they’ll go back to that sound that we’re referring to. But the proof is in the pudding, it seems a chunk of the fan iceberg has floated away... that’s evident in the sales (I’d be interested to see the vinyl sales) and floods of comments on social media

As Me & My Arrow alludes to, I think their aim for the last few years has been to try and mirror the success of bands like Train and One Republic who have become more 'mainstream' and in return sold lots of records by releasing unashamed pop. I don't think you can blame them for that given how well these bands have done in the last few years and I wouldn't completely rule out that the Goo Goo Dolls could still make a success of it. Though I suspect that might be taken out of their hands as I'm not sure Warner Bros will keep them on after this. And for what it's worth, I do think the label needs to take some of the blame here, both on Magnetic and Miracle Pill they chose the wrong lead single. The success of 'Come To Me' probably saved Magnetic somewhat and I think leading with 'Indestructible' would have helped this album a fair bit. I don't work for a record label but surely it makes sense to drop a single and video the week before or the week of album launch?

It looks like Miracle Pill sold just shy of 8,000 copies (https://hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart) in the US last week so around 60% of what Boxes managed. Do people think Johnny and Robby will carry on if Warner Bros drop them?

I do agree with you about the lead singles. I think Indestructible has already nearly surpassed Miracle Pill in listens and views despite MP having a 2 month or so headstart. How much of a difference this would have made I don’t know... one thing I have noticed is the label cannot be blamed, MP got some good television & press coverage. Perhaps strategically it could have been better but to be fair you let the music do the talking

Moving onto your second point, I don’t think WB will drop them so don’t worry. I’ve heard John refer to old bands as IPs like a big movie franchise... they’ll be like Harry Potter to WB for lack of a better analogy or film.

I think the direction of the next record will be most interesting and like Me & My Arrow said, how this affects their touring. Miracle Pill is front and centre of their next tour, so it will be interesting to see if people come out in droves.

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Miracle Pill debuts at #92 on Billboard 200
« on: September 24, 2019, 01:03 AM »
https://www.billboard.com/music/goo-goo-dolls/chart-history/billboard-200

Does it even matter? That’s kind of what I think. I don’t think it will particularly hurt the tour cycle the record has and the band’s enthusiasm for the new material.

Bit of disappointment to see it chart so, so low. To see Magnetic (2013) #8 then 6 years later Miracle Pill #92 is a steep decline in sales. I mean Korn debuted in the top 10 this week and I’m sure Blink 182 will be #1 next week, so fanbases support records.

Thoughts anyone?

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Re: Miracle Pill Album Review
« on: September 14, 2019, 07:18 AM »
Felt compelled to add my thoughts once more now the album has settled on me considerably more. Definitely still stand by my statement this is their best record since Gutterflower! Feels so great to say that because I've been posting on these boards since Let Love In (probably before with the amount of forum changes) and I've never lavished a new release with praise... that's over 13 years of posting mixed/disappointing reviews of their new music... until now. I think I love this record.

1. Indestructible - This one has had weeks in my ears and my feelings are consistent. Pretty strong throughout until the chorus comes in, then it gets a bit meh 6/10
2. Fearless -  This sounds great turned up. I think its really sweet John wrote this about his child as well, sorta punches you in the feels 8/10
3. Miracle Pill - I can embrace a more pop element but this song needs more grit and distortion. Missed opportunity 4.5/10
4. Money Fame & Fortune - Such a sick vibe. I do like this. I dig that the person is the money, fame & fortune; some slick social commentary there 7/10
5. Step In Line - Sorry Robby, you're a beast of a rocker but this isn't it 3/10
6. Over You - So earnest and helps make this record so diverse, a bit of a tonic if you're not into the electronic 7/10
7. Lights - This has grown more on me. Sounds like The Script but the drumming is more inventive; very emotive. Love it 7.5/10
8. Lost - Not as strong as Lights and has a familiarity to it from other bands, but undeniably catchy and I do dig it 7/10
9. Life's a Message - A bit better than Step in Line. But yeah I don't rate this, particularly the lyrics 4/10
10. Autumn Leaves - I love the lyrics. You could pop this on the soundtrack of Into The Wild next to Eddie Vedder and it would seem seamless; another tune which really showcases how much range this record has got 8/10
11. Think it Over - Absolutely rocks. Would slot into Dizzy or Gutterflower in terms of tempo, decibels and creativity. Strangely, for some reason, the gospel singers take me all the way back to 1990 Hold Me Up when they involved Lance Diamond - i think that's amazing 8.5/10

Overall - 8/10 - Probably ranks as their 6th best album overall for me

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Re: Miracle Pill Album Review
« on: September 13, 2019, 09:22 AM »
Great review jordhunter really enjoyed your positive review. After a few more listens I have a few more discussion points.
- Fearless should be the next single in my opinion it's definitely my fav track.
- Miracle Pill might be the worst ever lead single they have released.
- Robbys songs either need to evolve or just let the band do what they are best at.. let Johnny sing all the songs.
- Think it Over has definitely grown on me, a strong finish to the album.
- Songs like Autumn Leaves and Over You show they are still evolving their sound and trying new things so deep into their career and credit to them for that.

In my opinion stronger than magnetic and SFTROU but just behind boxes.


Yeah definitely Fearless seems the obvious one.

I see where you’re coming from with Miracle Pill. Seems a slightly bizarre choice as 1st single now in context of the whole record.... and as good as Money Fame/fortune is, is that really a single??

Still, for me, Rebel Beat is their worst ever single!

The Robby thing is strange, because up until SFTROU he was the guy you could rely on to bring the rock. But you could argue his songs on MP are even more experimental than John’s... for the first time as a fan I think it’s a shame his 2 spots on the record took away spaces for an in-form John

I do like Boxes! Maybe time will have then neck and neck for me. Unquestionably Miracle Pill is better than Magnetic and SFTROU though. And it’s more fun than LLI.

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Re: Miracle Pill Album Review
« on: September 13, 2019, 01:11 AM »
Spent most of last night listening to it (I'm from the UK).

Best album since Gutterflower in my opinion!

1. Indestructible - I just cannot dig those "woooahhhh oooohhhhh" choruses. But everything else is good, I especially like the strokes of guitar before the chorus 6.5/10

2. Fearless - I love the way  this sounds. Very modern and great energy. Unbelievably catchy and added sweetness knowing its about his daughter 8/10

3. Miracle Pill - I think its John's worst song on the record. A poor choice for lead single.  Lack of bite for me and that's probably because the piano is the most prominent instrument 4/10

4. Money Fame & Fortune - The best single so far. Love the powerful organ behind the synth. Fleetwood Mac vibes in the casual and catchy way this flows 7/10

5. Step In Line - Huge Robby fan but it was a struggle to not skip this which I did a lot 3/10

6. Over You - I love the late night music in the background bar-stool feel this has! 7/10

7. Lights - Another solid track, lyrically reminds me of a Script song. I like how the (electronic) percussion is very upbeat in juxtaposition to the sombre way John sings 7/10

8. Lost - I see a lot of similarities with other leading radio pop/rock acts with this one, but I still like it. Designed to be played loud on ya radio 7/10

9. Life's a Message - Another misfire. Laughing is a top 5 GGD song of all time for me. Would have to go all the way back to Let Love In to find a Robby track I dig though... Really don't like the lyrics and his voice only suits distorted guitars 3/10

10. Autumn Leaves - Hugely different. Need to listen to it more... Love how it paints such strong imagery in your head through the lyrics and mention of seasons... John stretching his vocals to 10/10 here.... 8/10 for now

11. Think it Over - Banger. The most old school sounding Goo track on here. Absolutely lovely, and for me, reaches back further to their old sound more than any song since the early noughties 8.5/10

So early reaction? It's great. Well done John, you've created something very special here

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Re: Indestructible
« on: August 09, 2019, 09:28 AM »
I do kind of like it! Evokes Springsteen which is not a bad thing. It’s always lovely to hear a bit of guitar as well to get the blood pumping. Reminds me a bit of Deaf Havana as well and a record they had from a couple of years back called All These Countless Nights which is a big compliment

Money fame and fortune is nice as well. I get a Fleetwood Mac vibe from that one. Love the organ (?) behind the synth in the chorus bit too

Miracle Pill is a great concept but I dislike it musically. The driving piano muddies the vibe and tempo for me plus there is a noticeable lack of guitar and real percussion

Happy to say all three are better than Rebel Beat and Magnetic though which I despise

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Sweeping guitars?

I like the concept of the song. I don’t dig the sound though. Just my two cents.

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Why Rebel Beat?
« on: June 15, 2019, 01:51 PM »
Been browsing the recent sets the band has been doing in their supporting slot for Train and I am perplexed how this song is still in the set? They've been doing 16 songs; as you'd expect, they're all singles aside from Miracle Pill. I get the "playing all the well-known songs" but why Rebel Beat? Does anyone else find it really hollow and that it adds absolutely no momentum to the set? Plus, ya'know, it is their worst chart-performing first single they have had since A Boy Named Goo.

Better well-known songs that should be in the set ahead of Rebel Beat in my opinion:

Naked
Long Way Down
Lazy Eye
Let Love In
Before its too Late
All That You Are
Real
Home
Notbroken

So all those above (I may be missing one, possibly two) all performed better and charted higher than Rebel Beat (apart from Notbroken). And they're all such better, better songs.

Some songs will get deleted from their live catalogue forever and I'd be so gutted if Rebel Beat survived when one of the before-mentioned songs, didn't. I personally think its such a black hole in their set

Anyone agree?

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Very nice post, jdt827. I wholeheartedly agree.

Like you, I really didn’t rate Magnetic. Maybe 95% to your 60%; and with time my taste for it has only further soured. It’s the only record I do not listen to one track off. In fact, seeing Rebel Beat on the setlist makes me cringe.

However, I love Boxes. I think for the most part it’s a home run. I always consider it to be the record that Magnetic should have been. Whereas Magnetic is all fluff and no bite, Boxes has an edgy streak yet is still the perfect antidote to SFTROU which is a bit bleak, for lack of a better word.

I’m honestly looking forward to whatever they’re cooking up. The You Should Be Happy EP was actually a perfect little mix of rock n roll and pop. And I actually prefer 30k feet to any of the songs Robby did on the previous two records.

If they use Boxes and the reception the DIZZY20 tour recieved as a foundation, I reckon it’ll be great.

And oh, Foo Fighters used a pop producer on concrete & gold I believe, and that was still a loud rock album. I don’t read too much into who they’re producing with.

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Re: What do you want in the next album?
« on: February 17, 2019, 01:27 PM »
I dont really care for a rock album. That sound is not coming back because thats not where their headspace is at the moment. John said he didn't want to make the same album twice. I'm just really happy that they are making new music and I would love anything really. I was the one with the most criticism on their pop sound but you know what? I love it all. Magnetic is almost their best album after Gutterflower for me. I would love some songs with the sound of Big Machine, Truth is A Whisper but also Slow It Down, Bulletproofangel and even Reverse, Souls in the Machine.

Give me it and I'll love it for sure, because they own each genre.

I think I may be the complete opposite.

It doesn’t have to be rock, but I really hope it isn’t like Magnetic. If John’s statement that he doesn’t want to make the same album twice is anything to go by though, hopefully it won’t be.

In my eyes, Dizzy20 is the most vital they’ve been in years, that’s why I flew to Seattle to see it and skipped the U.K. tour on my own door step.

Just my two cents of course. Really didn’t rate Magnetic.

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Goo Goo Dolls News & Info / Re: What do you want in the next album?
« on: January 24, 2019, 09:40 AM »
They can serve up what they want really and I’ll give it a shot.

One prayer would be some more electric guitar.

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Does anyone know what the list was?

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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/goo-goo-dolls/2018/the-fillmore-detroit-detroit-mi-73962ed5.html

No Two Days in Feb, Flat Top or There You Are.

Old songs are falling off fast.

Sympathy added.

They cancelled one show and re-scheduled this show.  John was fight and upper respiratory infection.  They dropped those songs due to his voice.  Cut them a break.  I'd be happy to watch them sing the phone book...lol!

I’m well aware of what’s happening, and why do I need to cut them a break? What have I said that’s inflammatory?

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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/goo-goo-dolls/2018/the-fillmore-detroit-detroit-mi-73962ed5.html

No Two Days in Feb, Flat Top or There You Are.

Old songs are falling off fast.

Sympathy added.

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So now he’s got to sing 5 nights in a row? Is that even possible, especially when he’s ill?

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